Entries: 129193    Updated: 2005-10-26 03:51:43 UTC (Wed)    Owner: robin lux

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  • ID: I123195
  • Name: John Baron De ARGENTEIN 1 2 3
  • Sex: M
  • Title: Sir Knight
  • Birth: ABT 1278 in Wymondley, Hertfordshire, England
  • Death: BEF 20 OCT 1318 1
  • IDNO: ems-jw
  • Event: Unknown-Begin 1288
  • Change Date: 12 JAN 2004
  • Note:
    Name Suffix: Sir Knight
    The following information taken from Medieval English Genealogy website at:

    According to his father's Inquisition Post Mortem, John de Argentein was aged 30 when he succeeded his father in 1308 (Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem). Presumably this is a round figure, so that John would have been born in the late 1260s or in the 1270s - probably after his father's release from captivity after the Battle of Evesham, at any rate.

    We first hear of John when, at his marriage to Joan, the daughter of Roger Brian in 1302, settlements were made by their parents. Reginald settled the manor of Fordham (in Essex) on the couple, and Roger settled his manors of Hatley (in Bedfordshire) and Throcking (in Hertfordshire) after his death. (Roger seems to have died by 1307,when John had a grant of free warren in Hatley and Throcking (Charter Roll)). By his first wife, John had three daughters:

    Joan, born c.1310

    Elizabeth, born c.1312

    Denise, born c.1315

    (Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem). We know that Joan must have died soon after the birth of Denise, leaving her daughters to inherit the Brian estates.

    Four Argentein gravestones, apparently in Baldock church, are recorded in Sloane MS 1301 (fo.146b). In additionto those of Reginald and Lora are two more, bearing the names 'Iohn de Argentine' and 'Iohan de Argentine'. It seems likely that these are the gravestones ofReginald's son John and his first wife, Joan. If so, the arms illustrated ('Gules a saltire [?]or, a chief ermine') must be those of the Brian family, although I have not seen them recorded elsewhere under this name.

    Some interestinglight is shed on the family's domestic arrangements by a surviving set of accounts for 1317-8 from the manor of Melbourn (Palmer), where they seem to have been living at the time. We know from later evidence that Joan's elder daughters,Joan and Elizabeth were married to two brothers, John and William, the sons ofRalph Boteler (or Butler). (The younger daughter, Denise, died without issue.)Evidently they were married extremely young. In fact, the marriages must have been arranged immediately after their status as heiresses was apparent, becausein the Melbourn accounts occurs an 'Aid for marrying the lord's eldest daughter'. The young bridegrooms also seem to have been living at Melbourn: the accounts also contain expenses for 'little socks', 'shoes' and 'slippers' for John Boteller, and 'linen cloth for the use of John Boteller and his brother'.

    By April 1317, John had remarried, to Agnes, the daughter of William de Bereford (Hertfordshire Record Office, no 59315). The following Spring, Agnes gave birth to a son, John, who was to succeed his father at the age of 6 months. The Melbourn accounts include an entry 'for four score and four geese and goslings (hocorys) bought for the churching feast of the Lady Agnes' after John's birth (Palmer).

    In contrast to his 13th-century ancestors, John de Argentein's official roles were purely local (although he might perhaps have achieved greater prominence if he had lived longer). He had a commission of oyer and terminer in 1312,after a band of robbers had assaulted and robbed a representative of the king at Baldock (Patent Roll), and others in 1316 and March 1318 concerning disturbances in Cambridgeshire (Patent Roll). In 1314 he had been appointed one of the conservators of the peace for Hertfordshire (Patent Roll), and in November 1317he was appointed to a commission in Hertfordshire to enquire into those raising bodies of men-at-arms (Patent Roll).

    In the military sphere, John's arms ('de goules a iii.coupes de argent') appear in the roll prepared for the first Dunstable tournament in 1308 (Parliamentary Writs). The Melbourn accounts of 1317-8 also show him undertaking a journey to the north ('a horse bought for Jackbet when he went north with my lord' (p.44); 'for

    Father: Reginald Baron De ARGENTEIN b: 1255 in Wymondley, Hertfordshire, England
    Mother: Lora De VERE b: 1268

    Marriage 1 Joane BRYAN b: ABT 1283 in Throcking, Hertfordshire, England
    • Married: 3
    1. Has Children Elizabeth De ARGENTEIN b: ABT 1312 in Melbourn, Royston, Cambridgeshire, England

    Marriage 2 Agnes De BEREFORD b: ABT 1290 in Burton, Leicestershire, England
    • Married: BEF APR 1317 in 1st Husband 2ND Wife 1 3
    1. Has Children John ARGENTINE b: BEF 1318 in Dorsetshire, England

    1. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the UnitedKingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Note: ABBR Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: VIII:584-5
    2. Title: GEDCOM File : emsuggs.ged
      Author: Not Given
      Note: ABBR GEDCOM File : emsuggs.ged
      Note: Not Supplied
      Text: 25 OCT 2003
    3. Title: GEDCOM File : 2746994.ged
      Note: ABBR GEDCOM File : 2746994.ged
      Page: 55
      Text: 3 JAN 2004
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