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a.
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Continued: <i>See marriage note for Stephen PLACE & Polly Camber who after much consideration appear to be the parents of Sarah (Sally) Place who married Benjamin Banfill. See also the death note.
As of May 2017 our family has DNA matches to Bev Walkling at the "extremely high" confidence level. Bev is apparently descended from Stephen Place and wife Hannah Magoon. It did not show as a shared ancestor match on Ancestry. Holly Scheffler has a good level confidence match to Stephen Place & Polly Camber to an Annette on Ancestry. If the Stephen Place who married Hannah Magoon is the one born approximately 1812, he and our Sutherland/Scheffler family's Sarah Place are siblings.
**************
</i>See the information below for discussion of possible parents, family members, etc.
Mrs. Sarah A. Banfill of Dracut, MA wrote to her nephew James Harley Banfill that his grandmother's maiden name was Place and "I think she had a brother Stephen Place, your father probably was named for him." (From Margaret Sutherland Scheffler)
Valerie George in an email message indicated a Stephen Place died in Newport, VT 9 Jan 1873. Could this be the same Stephen Place, brother to Sally?
The Stephen Place "III" that Valerie George referenced apparently had a first wife and a second wife Hannah Magoon with whom he had seven children.
-- MERGED NOTE ------------
At one point I concluded this Stephen Place is likely not the son of Elder Stephen Place and Martha Worden of Scituate, MA and Windsor, Vermont. In June 2017 I concluded otherwise.
A Jacob Place is listed in the history of Brome County Quebec. He and some associates received a land grant in the new township of Bolton in 1797. I first wondered if Jacob could have been Sarah's father or grandfather. Of course it is possible that he is not a relative, or is a more distant relative. He later seems to have disappeared from Brome Co.
Stephen Place was found in the 1825 Census of Canada with 11 people in the family -- 4 males under 6 years, 4 that are 6 but not yet 14, 1 married male 25 but not 40, 4 females under 14 years, 1 single female age at least 14 and not 45, 1 married female at least 14 and not 45. In 1842 there were 10 people in the family including one native of the US. This person had been in the province 46 years.
Benjamin Place who married Sally Chase had parents Stephen Place and Polly Camber or Comber per Valerie George. Marlene Domstead indicated that Olive Place who married William King on 11 Jul 1836 in Shefford, Quebec Methodist Church was the daughter of Stephen Place of Bolton.
Possibilities for parents at one point were Stephen, Benjamin and Jacob, the only other males found to date in Potton, Brome, Quebec. Stephen seems the most logical choice unless proven otherwise; he could not be Sally's father. After months of discussion on the PLACE rootsweb list and other correspondence the preponderance of evidence seems to fall on Stephen Place and a first wife, name unknown.
********
<u>Marlene Domstead provided the following in an email 9/16/2000:
</u>STEPHEN PLACE, foreign born, East Bolton, Que. Shown on 1825 Census of
Canada, Bolton Twp. as head of family with the following household.
11 total in family, none absent from Province.
4 under 6 yrs of age
4 six and under fourteen yrs of age.
0 above 14 and under 18.
0 males single or married age 18 and not 25
1 married male age 25 and not 40
0 males 40 and not 60
0 males 60 and upwards
4 females under 14 yrs of age
1 single 14 and not 45
1 married and not 45
0 single or married 45 and upwards
This shows in 1825 Stephen Place of Bolton had 4 sons and 5 daughters,
with the oldest being a dau at least 14 yrs of age.
<u><i>Here is where there may be a problem. Marlene is assuming Stephen Place ll married Hannah Magoon and that the Stephen Place of the 1842 census is the same as the 1825 census</u>. John Folsom concluded they are father and son and the son married Hannah Magoon.
</i>Then comes 1834 and he is a widower and on 24 Mar 1834, he marries Hannah
Magoon Randall, a widow also from Bolton.
1842 Census of Canada, Bolton Twp., Quebec
STEPHEN PLACE, proprietor of real property, 10th range, lot 2.
One house inhabited
His trade or profession is a Farmer.
10 total in family
1 native of the USA
46 number of years each non native person has been in the Province
2 males 5 yrs of age and under
1 female
2 males above 5 and under 14
1 female
2 single males 14 and not 18
1 single male 18 and not 21
1 married male 30 but not 60
1 married female 14 and not 45
3 single females 14 and not 45
3 number of children male and female between 5 & 16 in family
SO, this says that Stephen Place was born in the USA (foreign born) is 46
years old or older and his oldest child is either a son who is 18 but not yet
21, or a dau who is 14 and not 45. One child is no longer in the home which
would be a female who in 1825 was single & 14 but not 45. HANNAH MAGOON
RANDALL is part of my Magoon family, dau of Dudley and Nancy Smith Magoon and
she was born abt 1804/05 in Quebec, therefore she is not the non native to
the Province.
FURTHER, this also indicates that STEPHEN PLACE and HANNAH MAGOON
RANDALL had children together. Two males five years of age and under, and
one female five years of age and under, with the possibility of two more males and
one female above five but under fourteen. In 1842 Stephen and Hannah would have
been married about 7-8 years.
SO who could be the children of STEPHEN PLACE and HANNAH MAGOON RANDALL? Aylmer Place born 6 Aug 1836 is possible
Alonzo Place born about 1840 is possible
Asher Place born about 1846 is possible
Betsey Place born about 1843 is possible
Lydia Place born about 1845 is possible
AND it is also possible that STEPHEN PLACE if born around the time frame of
1785-1791 could be the father of BENJAMIN PLACE, born 10 Sep 1809, in Potton
or Bolton, SARAH (Sally) PLACE born abt 1814, in Potton, and OLIVE PLACE,
born in Bolton and married William King in 1836, as well as, STEPHEN PLACE,
born in Bolton and married Sarah Ann Partlo and Reety Place, born in Bolton
abt 1822.
I know Benjamin Place's mother was Polly (Paulie Mary) Camber born 18 May
1793 in Strafford, Orange, Vermont, died 13 Nov 1878 in Jay, VT. Her parents
were John Henry Camber and Heborah (Deborah) Data. They also had the
following children. Charlotte Camber, b. 18 May 1789, m. William Greenleaf,
on 27 Mar 1808. John Anderson Camber, b. 24 Apr 1791, d. 29 Oct 1862.
Miriam Camber, b. 19 Feb 1796, d. 29 Jan 1869. Henry Smith Camber, b. 1802,
d. 1 Aug 1868. Richard A. Camber, b. 26 July 1803, d. 6 July 1873. Theodoty
Camber, b. abt 1809, d. 26 Feb 1897.
I do not know if Polly Camber had any children other than Benjamin, and I do
not know with proof that someone named Stephen Place was Benjamin's father.
There is only one know record where his parents were named and a Stephen
Place and Polly Camber were so named as his parents. Polly Camber lived in
Jay, VT with Benjamin and Phebe Judd Place for a number of years. She seems
to have been in residence at Benjamin's when he was mustered into the Civil
War since her name appears at that time as Paulie M. Her death record gives
her name as Polly Camber and there is not any information about her marital
status.
Marlene Domstead has completed extensive research and concluded that Benjamin is not the son of Stephen Place. Perhaps DNA testing will help determine if he is or not.
*************** Ancestry Message Board Postings********
Stephen Place/Polly Camber
Posted: 11 Jul 2005 12:39 AM
Polly Camber b: 1793 d:1834 married to Stephen Place b: Sept 24, 1787 Foster, Providence, RI d: Jan 9, 1873 Newport, Orleans, VT. Kids Stephen b: 1812, Sarah b: June 25, 1813, Olive b:?, Asabel b: 1816, Mary Jane b: 1821 & Rectina b: 1822. I hoping to find more info on all of them. Thanks Carol
Re: Stephen Place/Polly Camber
joy prouty Posted: 11 Aug 2009 12:00 AM
Surnames: Place, Camber, Brown, Judd, Magoon
Your post is old, however, just in case others are checking you have your information regarding Polly Camber wrong. She was the mother of Benjamin Place b 9-10-1810, in Potton or Brome, probably Potton, named parents Stephen Place and Mary (Polly) Camber. The children you have listed are not Polly's children, they are the children of Stephen Place of Bolton, Quebec and whomever his first wife was, and those of Stephen Place and second wife Hannah Magoon Randall. There is nothing to give evidence that Stephen Place of Bolton, was the father of Benjamin Place, nor is there known evidence that Polly Camber, whose husband was unknown Brown, ever had any children other than Benjamin Place. I have tried and tried to connect Stephen Place of Brome, and/or Stephen Brown of Jay, Vermont to Benjamin and Polly, all to no avail. Now, Mary (Polly) Camber Brown did not died until the 1870's, you are quoting the time frame for the death of Stephen Place's first wife. I believe her name was Sally [surname not known], but I am unsure. At the time of her death Polly, who went by the name Mary, was living with her son Benjamin in Jay, Vt., and she is buried in Jay. Her death record gave her name as Mary Polly Camber Brown, parents John Camber and Debra Data. In the late 1850's Polly traveled from Stanstead, Que., to Jay, VT., accompanied by one Amos Brown, she then deeded her farm in Jay, Vermont to her son Benjamin Place and his wife Phebe Judd Place with the stipulation she was to live with them and be given various "things" the remainder of her natural life. Eben Judd handled the legal details. Polly lived the remainder of her life with Benjamin, even after Phebe Judd Place died. Polly's death and cemetery records are at Jay. There are no marriage records for her there. Yet, she had to have received the farm as part of an inheritance from either a Place or a Brown. I do not live near Vermont, and the Jay office is so busy they cannot find time to search out and copy records showing from whom Polly received the farm. Such records should reveal who she was married to and under what conditions she received this land. It appears she may have lived in Stanstead, next to John Camber, father or brother, for many years. I have the record wherein she deeded the property to Benjamin Place and Phebe Judd. I have had contact with the family of Stephen Place and Hannah Magoon Randall and they never heard of Benjamin Place or Polly Camber. What is needed is for someone within the Jay area to go to the Town Clerk's Office in Jay, and do a search of the property and once found the name of her husband should be revealed, and a will can be sought for this person.
*****************
From: "JOHN FOLSOM" <jorfo@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Stephen PLACE III
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:59:21 -0500
Hmmmmmm! Marlene? Margaret? Carol-Lynn? Mary Lou? Wayne? Others?
Are you ready for this?
<i><b>Stephen Place, II, b. 1787 was the Stephen Place of Bolton as of the 1825 census.
He WAS NOT the Stephen Place of Bolton as of the 1842 Census!
Furthermore, it appears that Hannah Magoon married Stephen III.
</b></i>Is this original thinking or is this what you had in mind all along?
After analyzing the 1842 census (see Part II), here's what I think happened:
PART I
Elder Stephen Place, Jr., was the father of Stephen Place II, b. Scituate RI 1797.
Stephen Place II married in (Springfield ?) Vermont , ca. 1808, Benjamin, his first born son, was born Sep 10, 1809, followed by Rectina in 1811, Stephen III in 1812 or 1813, and others. By the census of 1825, his wife had born 9 children . There may have been one or two others.
Stephen Place, III, b. 1810, married ca 1831. His wife died in childbirth in 1832 or 1833. In the meantime, Hannah Magoon, b. May 1805, had married ca 1823 ___?___ Randall, who also died ca. 1830. Stephen had lived with his father after his marriage and his sisters kept house, etc.
Stephen Place, III, married Hannah Magoon on March 24, 1834. Their first child, Aylmer, was born in 1836. By the time of the 1842 census , the couple had three of their own children plus three of Hannah's children by her first husband living with them. They were still living with Stephen II, as were two or three of Stephen's sisters.
I suspect, based on the circumstances, that Stephen II may have been out of the country (Canada) at the time of the 1842 census, but I suspect that he was the 'widower' who died at Newport, VT, District , on Jan 9 1873. He would have been 96.
NOTE -- The above is subject to further insights when I have had time to examine today's incoming mail. JOHN FOLSOM
>>><<< >>><<< >>><<< >>><<< >>><<< >>><<< >>><<< >>><<< >><<
PART II (John Folsom)
1842 Census of Canada, Location: Bolton Twp., Quebec Page: 2624 Line 17.
STEPHEN PLACE- head of family-proprietor of real property-1 house inhabited
10th range, Lot 21. Profession: Farmer.
10 total # in family-1 # of natives of the United States of America
46 number of years person has been in the province, when not native thereof
Children:
Lydia b. 1851
Asher S, b. 1846
Betsey b. abt 1843
Alonzo . b abt. 1841
2 males five years of age and under 1842 -1827
Asahel 1837
§ Aylmer 1836
- 1 female five years of age and under 1842 -1827
§ Eliza 1836
- 2 males above five and under fourteen- 1827 - 1824
- 1 female above five and under fourteen- 1827 - 1824
- 2 single males 14 and not 18 1824 - 1828
- Randalls
1 single male 18 and not 21 1821 - 1824
Randall
1 married male 30 and not 60 1782 - 1812 Stephen III. 1810
3 single females 14 and not 45 1797 - 1828
Sarah (Sally) b. 1813 .m. 13 Jun 1842 Benjamin Banfill Sarah???
Olive, b, 1818, m. 1836 William King
Rectina . 1811
Mary J 1821
1 married . female 14 and not 45 1797 - 1828 Hannah
Three # of children male and female between 5 & 16 in family. There appear to be more than 10 total in the family.
Stephen must have had quite a family! There were 11 in it as of 1825. We know that:
Asahel, age 21, married Susan Randall on 5 Sept. 1837. He would have been born in 1816 or thereabouts. Olive m. 11 July 1836, possibly under age 18 as her father's name is mentioned. The next wedding was in 1863 (Eliza), followed in 1865 by Betsey and 1869 (Lydia).
On 24 Mar 1834, Stephen Place widower, and yeoman of the Township of East
Bolton married Hannah Randall, widow, of the same Township. Witnesses
signing were Dudley Magoon (Hannah's father) Enoch Davis, Jere C. H.
Runnels, and Dudley Magoon Jr (Hannah's brother). These Magoons were from the
Stanstead area. In that the 1842 Census shows three children under five years of age these would have to be children born to Stephen Place and Hannah Magoon Randall
during the 8 years they had been married when the census was taken. I do not
know about the Do. Do children. Since Hannah died 6 Feb 1896, and was 91
yrs, 9 mos old, she was probably born in 1805, and could have been the mother of
at least one of the 2 single males age 14 and not 18, or mother to one of the
3 single females age 14 and not 45 with her first husband. She was either 29
or 30 when she married Stephen Place, who has to be 1 native to the United
States of America since Hannah Magoon Randall was Canadian. Assuming this
Stephen Place was the lost son of Elder Stephen Place then he would have
been age about 59 years. From Hugh Waterhouse I have data stating Stephen
Place's wife in 1872 when Aylmer Place was baptized as an adult was Hannah Magoon,
therefore it would appear Stephen Place was alive in 1872 and lived a long life as did Hannah. Stephen Place, however, is not buried in the East Bolton Cemetery just outside of Austin, Quebec where Hannah Magoon Randall Place is buried, or if he is there is not a tombstone to identify his burial site.
Children of Hannah Magoon Randall and Stephen Place were Aylmer Place, b:
6 Aug 1836, Alonzo Place , b: abt 1841, Asher S. Place, b: abt. 1846, d: 1
Jul 1861. Aylmer Place married Myra Mary Flagg of Westbro, Massachusetts on
31 Dec 1868. I do not have names for any other children born to Stephen or Hannah or from their first marriages. It is probable this Place family came from Norfolk, England to America and then into Canada.
I have the following Place marriages out of Canada: -- Stephen Place married Sarah Partlow on 5 Mar 1847 in Stanstead, Wesleyan Methodist Church. (I do not know this Stephen Place's line)
--Asahel Place age 21 of East Bolton married 5 Sept 1837 Sally Randall
--Betsey Place age 22 of Bolton married 4 Nov 1865 at Stanbridge Adventist Church, Eliab Gowing of Bolton
--Lydia Place of Bolton married 21 May 1869, Mills Geer
--Olive Place of Bolton married 11 July 1836 at Shefford, William King, she
was the daughter of Stephen Place
--Sally Place married 13 June 1842 at Potton, Benjamin Banfill
There is a Mary Jane Place and a Rectina Place in the book Shefford County
Cemeteries, Tombstone Inscription from the Protestant Burial Grounds, Vol. 2,
transcribed by R. Neil Broadhurst. I don't have this book but received the
information from another. Neil Broadhurst is good to answer questions, however, I have misplaced his email address.
Phebe Judd, born 30 June 1811, Weathersfield, VT. to Julen Judd and
Catherine Sisco. They were married 30 Oct 1796 in Weathersfield. Catherine was
born 29 Sept 1774 in Saville Twp., Sullivan Co., NH. Their children were Phebe,
Ebenezer, Mary, Richard and others. The family removed to Northern Vermont.
Julen Judd was the son of Ebenezer Judd, born 28 May 1747 in Waterbury, Connecticut; died 05 Oct 1780, in Claremont, NH. He married Phebe Warner, born abt 1753 in Connecticut. Their children were Julen, Iphenia, and Milo.
There may be others. Julen Judd is descended from Deacon Thomas Judd, born
about 1608, the original immigrant, through his son Thomas. The above information is from the book "Thomas Judd and his Descendants" by Sylvester Judd, 1856, page 44.
Benajah Place is not the parent of my Benjamin Place. Benjamin F. Place,
son of Benjamin and Phebe, and Laura Clough had a son named William Wallace
Place, born 10 May 1860. I do not have a Stephen Place born in Bolton, PQ
in my files, I do have Stephen J Place, son of Benjamin and Phebe, who was
born 08 Aug 1874 in Sutton, PQ. I am unclear about the data for Stephen Place
who married Sarah Ann Partlo, he may have been from Vermont or from the
Stanstead, Quebec area, I have not been able to give identity to him
beyond what has been previously stated. ***<u>end of John Folsom posting</u>*****
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